Croesor - Rhosydd (25/01/26)

Speedycaver said:
So, traversing the chamber would be a real mission due to that column, as Willy Eckerslyke said, not impossible, but a lot of work. If people can't climb a 10ft rope, they can't be trusted to do a 200ft traverse.

Bailing out the boat is no big deal, especially is everyone did it rather than no bothering and letting the water build up. When I was in there last weekend, there was about 3 inches of water throughout the whole boat,.. a lot of water. Bear in mind, we used to have to blow up an inflatable, which we all managed without any trouble.

There is no longer a need to climb a rope out of the far side since steps were installed a year ago or so. You just use the rope as a safety line running though your chest ascender, or hand ascender.

Yes, the boat is fibreglass and is repairable. It will need to be pulled up on the rocks at the far side to dry out and work on. The old repairs will need to be cut out and new repairs made. Ideally with fibreglass. We would need to ensure anyone proposing to make the trip on that day/days will need to have their own inflatable. A big sign at the entrance of Croesor will be needed and then it will be down to the individuals to work around it.

My plan is to manufacture a small platform to descend onto. The boat will sit along side the platform so you can just step in, holding onto the platform. This will avoid having to try and spin the boat around, adjacent to the wall, while dangling on the rope. A fixed taught rope will run from the near side wall to the far side wall with the boat attached to it. Once in the boat, you just pull yourself to the other side with the fixed rope. At the far side, you'll be right at the bottom of the steps and you simply step straight out onto the rock slab.

It removes a lot of the fun but it will also remove a lot of the risks that result in callouts.

I will be looking at this on my next visit as it is the next vital one on my list.
It might be a case of one visit to assess and then a follow up visit to actually carry out the work.
I am likely to go along with Unistrut for the platform as it is easy to work with and very versatile.
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As I remember it, the boat is an Old Town Discovery canoe and is not made of fibreglass. It's a laminate of plastic, buoyancy foam and more plastic. If it's cracked, it will get heavier over time but they generally stay buoyant. They're usually mended by plastic welding. They'll fill up to gunnels but not sink, like the boats in Bwlch y Plwm. You can get shaped foam blocks to put in each end, that reduce the amont of water the boat will hold: a lot of outdoor centres use these.

Chaining a couple of bailing buckets into the boat might be a quick & cheap solution in the short term.
 
David Roberts said:
As I remember it, the boat is an Old Town Discovery canoe and is not made of fibreglass. It's a laminate of plastic, buoyancy foam and more plastic. If it's cracked, it will get heavier over time but they generally stay buoyant. They're usually mended by plastic welding. They'll fill up to gunnels but not sink, like the boats in Bwlch y Plwm. You can get shaped foam blocks to put in each end, that reduce the amont of water the boat will hold: a lot of outdoor centres use these.

Chaining a couple of bailing buckets into the boat might be a quick & cheap solution in the short term.
Click to expand...
Ahh, it might be, I really can't be sure, but I thought it was a single skin hull. I believe it has been completely flooded a number of times, but stayed on the surface, I agree it couldn't actually sink. This will need to be looked at to verify the condition and what repairs will be needed. There are plenty of boaty people out there who I'm sure can give some advice and possibly assist 👍

There are already two bailing tubs attached in the boat, and there has always been various tubs and buckets in it to use. It really isn't an issue bailing them out, part of the adventure 😁

If anyone would like to go and have a look at the boat and help out, that would be great. If anyone does, please keep me/us informed to avoid two people working against eachother.
 
The "beach" shown in that photo could be extended fairly easily. We modified it a bit to shift one large rock that had always tried to tip the boat over while anyone climbed out. Possibly after that photo was taken, and the rock was the one you can see in the shot.
Anyway, there's loads more loose material sitting higher up. We only stopped when we came across some... ahem... organic matter... that we didn't want to deal with by hand. A couple of hours with a spade and/or rake would make a big difference.
My reasoning is that a nice beach to land on, might encourage people to take better care of the boat and bale it out before leaving.
 
Maxbowen1 said:
Which way did the canoe get brought in? Just something I’ve always wondered when I’ve done the trip
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Yeah, no idea who brought it into Croesor and got it to the bottom of the first abseil, but Scotty decided to take it all the way from there to the Chamber of Horrors,.. ON HIS OWN so I understand 🫣😂👍 Bless him.

Nowadays, you pull yourself all the way to wall below the exit passage so you can climb directly out on to the slab and the steps heading up, rather than land on the beach, scrabble up the slippery slab, traverse the slippery slab and drop back down to the bottom of the rope (steps). It is better this way.

No matter what you do, it is always going to be 'interesting' getting in and out of the boat, that is simply the fact with a canoe. Back to, 'how far do you go with eliminating every risk' situation.
 
Speedycaver said:
Yeah, no idea who brought it into Croesor and got it to the bottom of the first abseil, but Scotty decided to take it all the way from there to the Chamber of Horrors,.. ON HIS OWN so I understand 🫣😂👍 Bless him.

Nowadays, you pull yourself all the way to wall below the exit passage so you can climb directly out on to the slab and the steps heading up, rather than land on the beach, scrabble up the slippery slab, traverse the slippery slab and drop back down to the bottom of the rope (steps). It is better this way.

No matter what you do, it is always going to be 'interesting' getting in and out of the boat, that is simply the fact with a canoe. Back to, 'how far do you go with eliminating every risk' situation.
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That’s a ridiculous effort to get it that far😂
 
I know it's a radical set of words, and I know it'd cost £, and effort, but I'll say it so someone does:

Is it worth replacing the canoe?
 
**Advanced warning of work**

I will be carrying out refurbishment work on the boat crossing in the Chambers of Horrors, possibly starting next weekend, the 30th May, for about a week.

During this work, the boat is likely to be out of use, and so anyone planning to complete the trip will need to bring their own boat/inflatable dinghy or else they may not be able to cross the flooded chamber.

I will ensure there is an abseil rope available to descend down to the water from the passage.

I will be placing a number of signs in the main adit and close to the actual chamber to inform people of the planned work. The signs advise people to check here for any updates and I will try to keep this chat as up to date as I can.

My main aim is to manufacture a platform to abseil down onto and assist getting in the boat. I also want to have a look at what repairs can be made to the boat, if any. I am unlikely to be able to carry out any boat repairs on this visit, but will get an idea of what is required and may have to reschedule a further visit to fix the boat.

I am heading into CRTT this weekend to have a look to figure out what I need material and tool wise.
 
** UPDATE **
The work will begin next Friday 29th and likely take a week.

It must be assumed the boat will not be available and so anyone planning to do the trip during that time will need to take their own inflatable dinghy.
The abseil rope will still be available to use.

If anybody wishes to assist carrying the metalwork and gear in to the Chamber of Horrors (the boat chamber) from the Rhosydd No.9 adit entrance, that would be fantastic. This will be happening this coming Friday 29th. Likely from 11am onwards, but I can confirm the time nearer the time.
If anyone is free and up for giving a hand, please let me know. 👍
You will only need a helmet and lamp to get the materials to the chamber. You will only need SRT gear if you are willing to assist getting the gear to the far side of the lake and up into the passage.
 
Regarding the boat....
There is an old repair right in the centre of the boat and it has failed. This is the source of the leak, which is now pretty bad.
As pointed out by a few people earlier, this is a double skinned plastic hull, with 1/2 inch of foam insulation between.
Any recommendations for an in-situ repair will be welcome. Bear in mind, it will be almost impossible to completely dry it out in the chamber.
 
Speedycaver said:
Regarding the boat....
There is an old repair right in the centre of the boat and it has failed. This is the source of the leak, which is now pretty bad.
As pointed out by a few people earlier, this is a double skinned plastic hull, with 1/2 inch of foam insulation between.
Any recommendations for an in-situ repair will be welcome. Bear in mind, it will be almost impossible to completely dry it out in the chamber.
Click to expand...
Here's some ideas in addition to the ones that I messaged you about.

If you want to try to repair the boat's hull, the repair will need to be flexible or it will crack and fail again, as the hull is quite flexible. Some people use this flexible epoxy, which you can get from amazon and other suppliers in the UK. Have a read of the data sheets to see if you think it might work in the mine:

G/flex 655 Thickened Epoxy Adhesive | WEST SYSTEM Epoxy

WEST SYSTEM's G/flex 655 Thickened Epoxy Adhesive bonds with Plastics, Metals, Glass, Masonry, and Fiberglass.
www.westsystem.com www.westsystem.com

Make sure that it's the one for use on plastic.

These folks are the UK importers for Old Town, nowadays. I don't know if they'd have any suggestions about repairs: https://www.manchester-canoes-and-kayaks.co.uk/brands/old-town-canoes It could also be worth asking in a specialist canoeing forum, such as this one: https://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/

The boat would hold less water and be more stable if swamped, with a pair of these fitted. I don't if it's possible to find them second hand, if you have any links with any North Wales outdoor centres:
www.aiguillealpine.co.uk

Boat Floatation Device - BFD 1 - Aiguille Alpine

A hot wire technology, shaped block provides extensive floatation (500N) , encased in an extremely durable vinyl/nylon shell. The EPS block will absorb a nominal amount of water (0.02%) over a prolonged period under water – & does not break down inside the casing. If securely fastened will be...
www.aiguillealpine.co.uk

As before, I hope that's useful or at least some food for thought.
 
David Roberts said:
Here's some ideas in addition to the ones that I messaged you about.

If you want to try to repair the boat's hull, the repair will need to be flexible or it will crack and fail again, as the hull is quite flexible. Some people use this flexible epoxy, which you can get from amazon and other suppliers in the UK. Have a read of the data sheets to see if you think it might work in the mine:

G/flex 655 Thickened Epoxy Adhesive | WEST SYSTEM Epoxy

WEST SYSTEM's G/flex 655 Thickened Epoxy Adhesive bonds with Plastics, Metals, Glass, Masonry, and Fiberglass.
www.westsystem.com www.westsystem.com

Make sure that it's the one for use on plastic.

These folks are the UK importers for Old Town, nowadays. I don't know if they'd have any suggestions about repairs: https://www.manchester-canoes-and-kayaks.co.uk/brands/old-town-canoes It could also be worth asking in a specialist canoeing forum, such as this one: https://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/

The boat would hold less water and be more stable if swamped, with a pair of these fitted. I don't if it's possible to find them second hand, if you have any links with any North Wales outdoor centres:
www.aiguillealpine.co.uk

Boat Floatation Device - BFD 1 - Aiguille Alpine

A hot wire technology, shaped block provides extensive floatation (500N) , encased in an extremely durable vinyl/nylon shell. The EPS block will absorb a nominal amount of water (0.02%) over a prolonged period under water – & does not break down inside the casing. If securely fastened will be...
www.aiguillealpine.co.uk

As before, I hope that's useful or at least some food for thought.
Click to expand...
Thanks again David. I will have a look at these links to see what may work 👍
 
** UPDATE Thursday 4th June **

I have completed the water level platforms either end of the Chamber of Horrors (boat chamber) and rigged the canoe to a simple pulley system.

From Croesor, you abseil down onto the platform at water level. If the boat isn't there, you pull it across with the blue rope. Once in the boat, you pull yourself across with the rope to the other platform on the far side. You climb out of the boat, on to the platform directly below the rebar steps and rope up to the continuation passage into Rhosydd.

Ideally, the last person should bail out the boat if necessary and send it back to the Croesor side again. Pull it as far as it goes and it will be at the main platform.

The main platform is really nice. It's so peaceful standing safely right at water level in such a big chamber. I'm hoping people will enjoy it. It's certainly a lot safer getting in/out of the boat. 👍

I'll add some pictures after I get back up there tomorrow to tidy up.
 
** Update **
The boat chamber work is complete and ready to use 😁
I was unable to stop all of the leaks and so the canoe does slowly fill on it's own. It just means you will likely have to bail it out before use,.. same as it's been for a long time. I am looking to replace the canoe soon but, for now, it is perfectly useable.
Although I have taken down 2 of the signs warning of the planned works, there is still one at the Croesor adit entrance. If anyone is heading in and they see it, please take it down, thanks.

Below are a few pics of the new platforms.
 

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